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what is you favourite filter ?
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #1
what is you favourite filter ?

I tried one by one all filters,
and found the filter "hq4xS (mudlord)", to provide the best results .
Result look sharper & less aliased.

By the way, I'm surprised that the built in filter (i.e option Pixel Filter/ Magnification/ 4X/ HQ4x) doesn't provide same result.

And you, what is your favorite filter ?
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2008 09:19 PM by spacy51.)
07-13-2008 12:18 PM
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Squall Leonhart Offline
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Post: #2
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

on systems that support them, the 4xs plugins are good, however, on certain games, these filters introduce texture artifacts,

for systems that can't use the 4x plugins, the 2x plugins are good.

07-13-2008 06:05 PM
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icarium Offline
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Post: #3
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

[Image: 24zb1u9.png]
2XPM

[Image: 2ikwaaf.png]
HQ2X
I had been using HQ2X on the original VBA, but switched to 2XPM on VBAM, which seems to give a sharper & more detailed looking image compared to HQ2X.
08-01-2008 07:26 PM
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SCHUMI4EVER Offline
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Post: #4
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

I prefer not to use any filters at all and just use the D3D Filter:Bilinear setting. Makes it a bit blurry but all the detail is preserved which tends to get smudged out and distorted with all the other filters.
08-02-2008 03:08 AM
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #5
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Well, theorically, interpolation based on a grid of 4x4 pixel should be better than one based on a grid 2x2.
Bilinear filter, is a poor , quick, non-adaptive interpolation.
A better non-adaptive interpolation, would be a lanczos, or a bicubic ....
Hq4x, super eagle and so on... are adaptive interpolation.
Advantage of adaptive interpolation , is that sharpness of edges are restored.
Also adaptive interpolation interpolation try to eliminate jaggies,
and because of this it might be rounding/eliminate edges we want to keep (what you call "loss of details").
I found the "hq4xS (mudlord)" was good at preserving sharpness of edges, removing jaggies,
and not introducing too much artefacts.
I don't know how to write a vba-m plugin, but I guess it could be fun to tweak them ...
What about a hq6x plugin ?
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2008 11:55 AM by extrabigmehdi.)
08-02-2008 11:55 AM
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mudlord Offline
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Post: #6
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Quote:A better non-adaptive interpolation, would be a lanczos, or a bicubic ....

Quite CPU intensive.

DOLLZ wrote for me a Lanczos2 HLSL pixel shader. Runs quite well. And plus, all filtering is done on the GPU with that.

Quote:I don't know how to write a vba-m plugin, but I guess it could be fun to tweak them ...
What about a hq6x plugin ?

You need to learn how to write a Kega Fusion filter plugin. VBA-M uses its filter system. Steve Snake posted some example filters with source on his site. So there is a start.

As for HQ6X....I can't see the reason. HQ4X is more than enough.
08-02-2008 01:28 PM
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #7
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Quote:Quite CPU intensive.
That's a bit suprising . These interpolation can be processed in two steps : horizontally and then vertically (or reverse),
which help in processing time.

Quote:DOLLZ wrote for me a Lanczos2 HLSL pixel shader. Runs quite well. And plus, all filtering is done on the GPU with that.
Never tested this Lanczos2 HLSL, but I was just suggesting
something better than the default bilinear offered.
Lanczos2 is about same quality as bicubic, so better do a Lanczos3 Angel

Quote:As for HQ6X....I can't see the reason. HQ4X is more than enough.
It's just about how to waste the remaining power in order to improve more the quality .
08-02-2008 02:34 PM
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SCHUMI4EVER Offline
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Post: #8
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Ok well I did a comparison of the filters. And I do rather think that simply setting OpenGL or D3D to Bilenear does the trick. I ran Medabots: Medabee Version at 4x window size for the test. Just take a look at the text and message box in each one.

hq4xS(mudlord)
   

regular D3D set to bilenear
   

2XPM HQ
   

hq2x
   

Whilst the 2XPM HQ and hq2x may give bilnear a run for it's money, I still prefer as whilst the image is blurrier and jaggier, the jaggies that are there make sense and follow the image accurately. hq4x presents a horrible smoothing/smudging/oberboardboldening of everything...and just look at that text...it may be the most instense and most clear...but no way am I going to use it. Not to mention I usually play at 2x or max 3x window size anyways.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2008 08:11 AM by SCHUMI4EVER.)
08-06-2008 08:00 AM
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Squall Leonhart Offline
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Post: #9
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Mudlord, can you implement Trilinear filtering? + a texture sharpening method

you can use one of either...

glGetSharpenTexFuncSGIS - get sharpen texture scaling function


or lod bias adjustment using
EXT_texture_lod_bias

(This post was last modified: 08-06-2008 10:01 AM by Squall Leonhart.)
08-06-2008 09:48 AM
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #10
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

@SCHUMI4EVER

Quote:I still prefer as whilst the image is blurrier and jaggier, the jaggies that are there make sense and follow the image accurately
We may just don't have same tastes... I like sharp graphics.
Although in your example result would be more natural, when blurry...

Quote:Not to mention I usually play at 2x or max 3x window size anyways
Well, I play with the windows maximized (almost full resolution , which is 1280x1024) . At this size , blurriness might become unbearable.
At 2x, it might make no sense to use hq4x. I think hq4x is usually intended for a 4x enlargement ...

Quote:and just look at that text...it may be the most instense and most clear...but no way am I going to use it
In your example, hq4x improvement might not be obvious.
However, now tell me which one look better ,
with this example taken from "Zelda The Minish Cap":

no interpolation (nearest neighborhood)
   

bilinear
   

2XPM HQ
   

"regular" hq4x , builtin in vba-m
   

hq4xS(mudlord) ,separate plugin
   

Difference between hq4xS(mudlord) & "regular" hq4x should be obvious in previous example...

Now, I would add that I find the game "Warioland 4", much more enjoyable with hq4x.
Here's an other quick comparison, for this game:

bilinear:
   

hq4xS(mudlord)
   

@Squall Leonhart
Quote:Mudlord, can you implement Trilinear filtering? + a texture sharpening method
Trilinear filtering is for anything involving 3D. I don't see any 3D in the gba.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2008 10:43 AM by extrabigmehdi.)
08-06-2008 10:37 AM
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Squall Leonhart Offline
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Post: #11
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Trilinear is for any Texturing smoothing which may use gradients or Alpha, of which there are quite a few GBA games that do, resulting in colour artifacts between pixels.

08-06-2008 11:49 AM
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SCHUMI4EVER Offline
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Post: #12
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Well whilst hq4x looks a lot better in your comparison than it does in mine. I would still pick either bilenear or 2XPM HQ over it. Things tend to get distorted and lose their original shape and texture with hq4x. Whilst I do want to play on a larger screen I want it to stay as true to the original as possible and hq4x simply distorts too much. If I do find things too blurry then I would use X2PM HQ or hq2x. I understand it's matter of taste, I just simply wanted to point out why I prefer the smaller filters.
If you use the additional TV scanlines or Bilenear Plus filters then the blur is a lot less noticeable, although the colours take a hit due to them and their darkening of the screen.
For Warioland4 I must admit it looks better...but then again that screen shown is not exactly very complex, there are lots of simple shapes which are easy to smooth, like squares and triangles there...if however you try it on a much more detailed screen...say something like Golden Sun or a fight in a Final Fantasy game things would not look anywhere near as good. Costumes would get messed up, swords would lose their shape and various other distortions would occur.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2008 07:15 PM by SCHUMI4EVER.)
08-06-2008 07:09 PM
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #13
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Quote:Things tend to get distorted and lose their original shape and texture with hq4x.
well, I believe you are underestimating filters... In fact the word "filter" can be misleading , because for instance hq4x, is a true interpolation , not an effect applied to an already enlarged picture. I don't see how keeping jaggies, or loosing sharpness could be considered more accurate. Off course, if you are playing at 2x size, this is not enough, to see advantage of hq4x filter. In the case of "Wario Land 4" , the WHOLE game look better with this filter, I can't imagine not using it.

Quote:Whilst I do want to play on a larger screen I want it to stay as true to the original as possible and hq4x simply distorts too much
If you want to stick to original, then play at 1x, with interpolation disabled Angel

Quote:If you use the additional TV scanlines or Bilenear Plus filters then the blur is a lot less noticeable
Scanlines or bilienear plus are just for the fun, I don't see how filling half of the screen with fake informations could be considered more accurate.

Quote:Costumes would get messed up, swords would lose their shape and various other distortions would occur
Well, I just played ff6 on SNES9X, and don't have lot of savestates for gba version. However, here's a comparison for the first fight:

bilinear
   

hq4xS(mudlord)
   

I prefer the hq4x version Gfdrin

EDIT:
At least I agree for textures, they look sometimes just worse with hq4x, but edges are better handled than with bilinear. That's why hq4x might be better for games with simplistic textures, like wario land 4.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2008 11:53 PM by extrabigmehdi.)
08-06-2008 11:33 PM
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Squall Leonhart Offline
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Post: #14
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Interpolation causes a hit to quality due to ineffective blending it leaves texture artifacts on the edges of textures, which can be clearly seen on 2xSaI on a LCD panel.

a better method would be to scale with the graphics hardware and use hardware sharpening and filtering to improve texture quality, this will also bring about the ability for lesser cpu's to power high scaling settings.

08-07-2008 01:36 AM
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #15
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Quote:a better method would be to scale with the graphics hardware and use hardware sharpening and filtering to improve texture quality
If it's done in two steps, i.e enlarge, then sharpen, then it's not a true interpolation. Aim of "true" interpolation is to minimize loss of detail,
and you can't recover efficiently lost details in a second step.
08-07-2008 01:50 AM
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Squall Leonhart Offline
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Post: #16
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Interpolation CAUSES a loss of detail, which is the problem, it simply does not respect colour and alpha blending, so you end up with either small coloured artifacts, or in the case of the HQ filters, blocky textures.

besides, the benefit of hardware scaling is it is more accurate then software.

08-07-2008 01:55 AM
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extrabigmehdi Offline
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Post: #17
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

Quote:Interpolation CAUSES a loss of detail,
Hence the word MINIMIZE . A good interpolation should have a MINIMAL loss.
You'll obviously have more loss in two steps, than in a single one.

Quote:it simply does not respect colour and alpha blending,
perhaps each sprites should be scaled separately, in order to improve the blending ?

Quote:besides, the benefit of hardware scaling is it is more accurate then software.
I don't see why result would have a better quality with hardware than software. There should be only a difference of speed.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2008 03:02 AM by extrabigmehdi.)
08-07-2008 02:59 AM
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Cobra951 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

(08-07-2008 01:55 AM)Squall Leonhart Wrote:  Interpolation CAUSES a loss of detail, which is the problem, it simply does not respect colour and alpha blending, so you end up with either small coloured artifacts, or in the case of the HQ filters, blocky textures.

besides, the benefit of hardware scaling is it is more accurate then software.

Why would it cause a loss? Interpolation is an educated guess of what data should go in the in-between pixels after scaling up an image. The idea is to *add* information. The original pixels should not be touched.

After much fiddling, I decided I don't like any of the 4x filters. I prefer a few of the 2x filters on 4x magnification, with D3D filtering taking it the rest of the way. I settled on Super Eagle, though I prefer HQ2xS. The problem is that HQ2xS uses up almost all my CPU. I hope to see some optimizations here.

Being a VBA-M n00b, I have a basic question. When I first fired up the emulator, I was treated to a simulation of the LCD-screen look. After messing with the filters, I could not figure out how to get that LCD filter back. Help? Thanks.
09-12-2008 12:47 PM
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I.S.T. Offline
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Post: #19
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

LCD filter is broken completely. I dunno what was originally on when you turned it on, but LCD filter did nothing.
09-12-2008 11:25 PM
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Squall Leonhart Offline
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Post: #20
RE: what is you favourite filter ?

setting Colours to Gameboy, rather then real....

09-13-2008 08:08 PM
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